Different Force Lift Question, Focusing on the "at any time" element

I really think we should allow the players an opportunity to come to an agreement before adding (yet another) ruling for people to learn.

I tend to agree -- especially given that this is largely a 2v2 issue. The only corresponding 1v1 scenario I can think of is the player controlling Yoda playing Insight when the opponent is Lifted and has exactly 3 cards.

In my opinion, this is enough to warrant a ruling. It doesn't come up often, so it's not a major change, but how will players resolve the situation in an EDOL-sanctioned match? Also, I know some 2v2 tournies were in the works, so it may be a greater concern in the future.

Personally, I feel that it should stay consistent with the ruling about responding to an attack declaration. However, I also think it's worth re-considering the way that is done. It is possible that the designers envisioned a sort of "stand your character?" check. In the same way that you ask an opponent whether or not he will play a defense card before you flip an attack, you could ask before you take an action whether or not a player would like to discard to stand the lifted character up. This would avoid the problem Trumpetus mentioned about fighting over when a card is played and force Yoda's opponent to actually make a choice if he feels he is going to be attacked or have his hand discarded.

I'm not actually advocating that method over the current AT ANY TIME-stressed one, just pointing out a reasonable alternative for consideration.

Well, we (my group) dealt with this a while back and our solution opens a new can of worms into this thread. Here's how we play it:

Neither of the 2 scenarios discussed in this thread so far are what happens.



Here's why:

When 3 cards are discarded at once by any player, the Force Lifted character stands up.

So, Obi plays Force Balance while Vader is on his side... if Yoda, Vader, or Obi discarded 3 of more cards from the Force Balance then Vader stands up.



So... in the YWD scenario:

Emp played YWD.
The player who received YWD, discards his entire hand.
If he discarded 3 or more cards, the Force Lifted character stands up.



This method is takes away any, "at any time", arguments as well as the, "but I'm not discarding them to stand him up", arguments. And I'm always looking for less table arguments.

I don't think it gets rid of the "but I'm not discarding them to stand him up" argument. That argument would still apply. If I were playing in your group, I would disagree with this ruling, because the assumption for the ruling is not based on the actual wording of Force Lift. It doesn't say "discard 3 or more cards."

It says "At any time, any player may discard 3 cards to stand this character back up." It's pretty clear the player has to discard those cards IN ORDER TO stand that character back up. And it's pretty clear to me that the player must choose to discard those cards "at any time". So, I think it's a pretty obvious assumption that if you were discarding cards already from another card effect, that it would have nothing to do with your choosing to discard 3 cards to stand them back up.

Now, if your ruling on Force Lift was acknowledged as being a "House Rule", then I'd have no problem with it. And if I were in your house, then I'd abide by the rule. But I don't think this ruling can be a logical interpretation, or a "normal" ruling of Force Lift.

We went with "any player may discard 3 cards to stand this character up", as meaning:

3 cards discarded at one time, by any player, stands up the Force Lifted character (because that's what the card says). It's right there on the card itself. It doesn't say, "ONLY these 3 cards are the ones that do it" or anything like that. It simply states that discarding 3 cards at once by any player, stands up the guy. So first and foremost, that's a rule. Therefor, the card's "at any time and may" means that: "at any time" you "may" choose to activate this rule. Furthermore, if a guy discards 5 cards at one time... I believe he just discarded 3 cards at one time also... so the character stands up.

If you think about this last paragraph for a second, it actually makes sense. Otherwise, you'll get argument scenarios like the the scenario the OP suggested with Emp's YWD (and others).


So the rule of "anytime 3 cards are discarded", ends the "I didn't discard them to stand him up" argument. That's where I got that from. And there's no argument about the OP thing with YWD as this rule ends that one too.


It's all in the interpretation of the Force Lift card. You can choose to interpret it differently or you can go with what it says. By its own stating: 3 cards discarded at once, by any player, stands up a Force Lifted character. So that's where I got it from (I got "it" from it): 3 cards discarded at once stands up a character. Simple.

The "...TO stand this character up..." part is confusing people (I think) because it plants a possiblity of the player deciding which 3 card discard will be "the one" to stand the character up. The thing is, is that the Force Lift card doesn't say that "that one specific 3 card discard" is the one that does it. It says that 3 cards discarded stands up the character and "at any time" you "may" choose to do that. Sometimes you may not choose to do it, but are forced to do it (ala YWD).


I'm not out to prove anyone wrong. I'm trying to help people have less Force Lift arguments in their games. I do believe that this rule makes Force Lift less confusing and is the original intention (based on the card's text). It makes the Yoda game's better (because there's less bickering) and I think all should try it out. I believe you'll like it better this way. I know we do.

I have to disagree with you on this one; the wording you are playing (which is perfectly all right as a house rule, don't get me wrong) is, "At any time, if any player discards 3 cards, you may stand this character up." The wording on the card is quite different, and does not allow such flexibility. For example, suppose Emp is playing against Yoda. Yoda lifts Emp, and on next turn Emp hits Yoda with YWD to discard a hand of at least 3 cards. I think it's completely against both the spirit and explicit wording of the card for Emp to be able to stand back up.